Onboarding Secrets from a CFO

LEADERSHIP LESSONS FOR EXTREME TIMES

Let's Talk, People: Episode 16

[00:00:08] Hi, I'm Emily Frieze-Kemeny, host of Let's Talk People, where leaders come to bridge humanity and profitability. Informed by a couple decades of work as a head of talent and leadership development, I'm here to amplify leaders so they can exalt everyone and everything they touch. Are you ready? Cause it's about to get real. Let's talk people.

[00:00:34] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: It is my pleasure to welcome Cameron Kinloch to Let's Talk People. Cameron and I go way back to our Morgan Stanley days. And what I think is fascinating about Cameron and what you're going to learn about her is she has been in Two of the most intense industries that I can think of.

She spent the first half of her career on Wall Street at Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs. And then she switched over to Silicon Valley and has had the rest of her career in really significant and leadership roles at key moments in time for those companies. Companies, as a tech leader, which not many people, have been able to do.

She has LED finance. She's currently a CFO of weights and biases, a series C enterprise software company that's building an AI developer platform. She has also held leadership roles in strategy and operations in SaaS companies, FinTech. And consumer industries, she has taken multiple companies through successful IPOs, M and a exits acquisitions, divestitures, and capital raises.

Cameron has also been the CFO of dynamic signal where she led the company's successful exit to private equity. She held leadership roles at both the box and sun run IPO processes. And Cameron has held multiple board director positions. She's currently on the board of two companies, and you know, prior to this amazing career, uh, Cameron was no schlump. She almost became a professional violinist, as you'll learn from her, and she got both her MBA and her BA from Harvard.

This is gonna be one of those podcast episodes that you might have a little bit of a hard time initially getting excited about. I don't think we as people leaders like to focus too much on onboarding, which is exactly why this is the topic of this conversation. And the fact that Cameron chose this as one of her passion topics to talk about in terms of leadership and people management success, I think tells you all that you need to know.

I think we sometimes, like to treat onboarding like a checklist or as a weak checklist that maybe doesn't even get fully executed on. And I think what we're going to do is make the case in this episode for you of not only why it matters in terms of speed to productivity and effectiveness, but there's a real human side to the onboarding process.

You know, starting a new job is one of those big moments in one's life that you will always remember. That creates something that is even deeper from a personal and emotional perspective, and I think it's something to be honored and respected in terms of how we treat people as human beings and how we set them up for a really positive experience in our organizations.

And yeah, we have a really important role in that as people managers. So we're going to take you through, Our perspectives on onboarding effectiveness and like the tactics of what you should be doing the role that you play as the manager. This is not just for HR. This is for you to as well as for your team and, you know, trying to think about that experience of how you get to know somebody so that you can onboard them as an individual most effectively and balancing that with them coming into a system that already exists in terms of having norms, both spoken and unspoken norms and team dynamics.And so how do we always balance between. What that person needs to be successful and what already exists within your team and organization. So we're excited for it. Let's jump in.  

[00:04:45] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Cameron, first of all, is so fun to be back and reconnected with you, because we go all the way back to our Morgan Stanley days. And thank you so much for joining us on Let's Talk People.

[00:04:56] Cameron Kinloch: Absolutely. Looking forward to this.

[00:04:58] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: So first we want to make sure people get to know you. I'm the fortunate one who already does.So we're going to start a little bit further back though. I know usually, you know, we look at our lives at this stage as, as kind of our adulthood, but I think that a lot of what shaped us happened early in life, so maybe if you could just share just one thing from your childhood that you feel gives us a little bit of a window into who you are and who you became.

[00:05:23] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah. So growing up, I was actually on track to become a professional violinist. And so that really shaped a lot of my childhood. I practiced four to six hours every day. And in high school, my violin teacher would actually call me at 6am in the morning to make sure I got an hour of practice in before I went to school. 

[00:05:43] Cameron Kinloch: So that probably explains why I'm still an early riser to this day And at some point I had to make a decision whether I wanted to go down the professional track and if I had done that, I would have had to leave school, become homeschooled and take a completely different trajectory in life. And so clearly I did not go down that path and I chose the path that led me to becoming a CFO instead.

[00:06:07] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: That's incredible. How did you find your way to the violin and do you still play today?

[00:06:15] Cameron Kinloch: So I don't play today. Violin as a string instrument requires just lots of hours of practice to get the notes in tune. So I don't have time, unfortunately today to still keep it up. But this also probably goes to now one of my things that I hold dear, which is I apparently told my parents when I was two or three years old when they took me to my first orchestral concert that I liked the violin and I wanted to play and that turned into a commitment through through high school.

And so for me I think having grown up with that kind of commitment, I hold dear. Commitments very very strongly. So it's something that shaped a lot of who I am today as well.

[00:06:57] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: it's amazing how we intuitively know what we like. If we really listen to ourselves, that's amazing. At that young an age that you were like, Ooh, that thing is for me. Very cool. And then, and then you're all in.

[00:07:09] Cameron Kinloch: absolutely. All in.

[00:07:12] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: So I'm going to totally jump to the present. Tell us a little bit about what you do today and what you love the most about it.

[00:07:20] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah. So today I'm the CFO of a company called Weights and Biases, and I'm also a board director at two companies, which I love. Weights and Biases, I've been there for three years. We're a private company and we are building an AI developer product. Platform. And what that means is we're building tools for AI developers, and we have incredible customers such as open AI and NVIDIA.

And what I love most about the company is the people that I work with. I mean, everyone there is incredibly curious. They're passionate. They're so smart. And we're just out there trying to solve really hard problems as we grow and scale the company and continue to make products that our customers love.

So I learned something from my peers and colleagues every day. And that's for me, what makes it really fun.

[00:08:04] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: And I think that's a little window into why you're here to help us support all of the people, managers and leaders out there, which is you bring a very human orientation to the work. Even just in that description, we can already hear it. You're in such an important place in terms of where the world is going and being at the foundation of setting people up for success to build AI at scale is obviously a really important vantage point to be in.

So we could probably go on a whole, a whole session just on that topic alone. Very, very cool. When you think about your career. And where you now are in your career, what would be an example of a moment in time that you can remember that you feel contributed to you achieving the type of career success and, you know, passion that you found for your work and where you are now today?

[00:08:54] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, so there's so many moments, but certainly a pivotal moment is probably when I made the shift from Wall Street to Silicon Valley. So I spent 10 years on Wall Street, and then I've now spent 10 plus years in Silicon Valley. And I think that. Shift that moment of making that change and leaving Wall Street coming back home to California, to Silicon Valley and working with tech startups was just such a defining moment because, I left something that I knew so well and made the switch to jump to entirely new industry, entirely new way of working.

And thinking about the world, different norms, different cultures, and that process of reinvention and adapting has definitely been something that's really shaped all of my experiences and how I think about myself as a leader and manager and helping others through that process as well.

[00:09:46] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Yeah, that's right. Because you start to see what you're really capable of. And. How to move into something. What do you bring from your past and what new is there to learn and to be able to kind of mold those two together? That's great. And then when you just reflect just coming at it more from the lens of leadership and you know, you kind of look back, what do you think has been an experience, a learning lesson, a story that has shaped who you are as a leader?

[00:10:16] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, so there have been so many leaders and mentors that I have to thank all along my career journey. But ultimately, I really have to give credit to my mom, who was an absolute trailblazer. She was a senior finance executive in the oil industry in the 1970s and 80s. And that was just a very tough place to be as a female minority.And so I know she faced a lot of difficulties in that role at that time. And I really just admired her perseverance, her dedication and her optimism. She showed up every day in that industry for almost 20 years. And so I just had an incredible role model to look up to. And that probably set the framework for me to succeed both in Wall Street and in Silicon Valley.

[00:11:04] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Tell us a little bit about what it was that you think you either observed when you were You know, earlier in life, or that you now understand about her kind of looking at it through the eyes of an adult. Like, what was it about her that you think is shown up in your leadership?

[00:11:20] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, I think it's, it's a combination of, I mean, one, she was just probably and had to be sort of a fighter, you know, she was just, you know, having to wake up every morning and fight certain battles, but do that in a way that was Not viewed as aggressive, you know, so finding that balance or navigating through really difficult situations, I'm sure but then also succeeding through that and that combination of IQ and EQ to succeed in that kind of environment was just something that I took away with and then.

The second piece was just that uncrushable spirit to be able to go into hard situations and then find the optimism, find the silver lining, say, what can I learn from this and how can I grow and do better? And just show up every day.

[00:12:10] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: That's great. From starting to know you better at this stage in your career after, you know, everything that you've accomplished. You do have this unique perspective, which is why I wanted to bring you on so that people could get to know you and kind of learn from you that there are different aspects of what it takes to be successful in terms of how you bring different elements of yourself.

As you said, like the fierceness and the emotional intelligence, the financial acumen and the people management skills like it's that balance. And I think that, you know, if you would. Even say, what is a stereotype of people who grew up on Wall Street are in senior leadership roles that are more financial and operational or technical in nature.

You would assume that they're not as strong in the people and human skills. And I think we've permission, that stereotype, and obviously that's a pattern we want to break, which is you have to be able to do both to be successful as a business leader today, period. And so that's a big part of where we're going to go.

And, you know, when. You and I were chatting. There's so many moments in someone's work experience and journey where we bring in humanity and we bring in intentionality. And the one that we're going to spend time on is one that I think we don't always give enough attention to, which is onboarding. It reminds me, sometimes I can see the world of work through the analogies of dating, which is hilarious because I haven't dated in like 100 years.

But, you know, coaching friends through it, I feel like I stayed a little bit recent, which is, the way that you start with someone, the way things begin often tells you a lot about where it's going to go, and I think we know that with the recruiting process and when we try to sell somebody, but then they show up and you hear ridiculous things like the laptop wasn't ready, and I hear this at many, many organizations and that you're just kind of left to navigate it, and it's really awkward and uncomfortable, and it tells you a lot about the care in which people treat people.

One another at work. So the fact that this is a passion area for you, I think, is really important. And I think it's unique. And it's something that we wanted to spend a little bit of time kind of educating around. So what was it for you, though, Cameron, that got you really clear about this part of the journey, the employee experience journey, the onboarding part, like, what made that click for you that this is a thing?

[00:14:33] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah. And I love the analogy to dating because it's so true, when you look back on an experience, you can often find the seeds of how something ends by how it starts. So great. But I've been at a lot of companies myself over the course of my career, many different startups, large companies, small companies.

And so I think for me, it comes from a place of both empathy and then also deep understanding of what it's like to start a new job. Thank you. You know, every person, you have so many emotions that you go through on your first day and in your first few months on a job, right? There's the excitement of learning something new, building relationships with new colleagues and just really, more importantly, just the desire to come in and have an impact and share what you know and what you can bring to the role.

And that's true, whether you're relatively junior and it's your first job, or if you're really senior and you have a lot of experience to bring to the table. And so I've seen personally that when onboarding isn't done well, and you're spending your first week trying to get access to the files that you need, you're trying to get into the meetings that you need to be a part of that excitement, and that joy can transform really quickly to just deep frustration.

And so for me, that's such a pivotal moment in employees journey with a company, like, why not make that an incredible experience and reduce the friction so that. That person can contribute to the team much more quickly into the organization. So that's the personal side of the experience for me. And it also was really crystallized for me when I read this book called The Power of Moments by Chip and Dan Heath. And in that book, they talk about how we, as humans, remember these key pivotal moments in our life. And like, what defines those lasting moments? And they talk about the different kinds of criteria that really defines these peaks and valleys to your, memories and starting a new job has all of these different elements.

And so it's really something that's very memorable and people hold on to and remember in their journey both over the course of their life, but certainly with that company as well. So I also view it just as really important for me to set up that person successfully and make that onboarding experience really positive.

[00:16:49] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Yeah, I can completely relate to that. And, you know, even just this idea of how it plays a role as an accelerator. I think that we don't always think about what you would share Cameron, which is like, this is a moment in their life that they're always going to remember. And that's that I think that's profound.

And, you know, when we talk to leaders, the reason that they onboarding with such thought and care in the way that you do is they either think HR is going to do it for them, like that's kind of taken care of for you. It's not part of your responsibility. You already did the work to get the person, you know, to accept the offer and the number one reason that everybody complains about everything, which is I'm too busy.

So I think hearing it from you is an important lens because you're a CFO. So I'm sorry, not a lot of people can compete from a busyness or intensity pressure perspective to that role. So how do you, you know, how do you do it? How do you make the case for somebody who is equally stressed and busy and overwhelmed that they need to do this with such care?

[00:17:55] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, so it goes back to what I said earlier. Like it comes down to the people. And at the end of the day, while I have to deliver numbers and financials and everything needs to be ticked and tied and correct, you know, ultimately, I can only succeed if I have an amazing team supporting me.

And so I don't view onboarding or people management as something else Extra I need to do on the side. It's just literally setting my team up for success and enabling them to contribute faster and fostering that environment where they can come in and they're excited and they feel like they've got the environment to do the best work of their career ultimately helps me succeed in the team succeed.

So I view it as absolutely core to my role in my success as a leader. And it reminds me of that cartoon where, you know, people have a square wheel and they can't move faster because they don't want to take the time to put in place circular wheel. And so that kind of thing of like, I'm just too busy to actually work more efficiently and effectively is something that I think holds people back.

But if you put in that extra 30 minutes or an hour up front, It will have such longer term leverage for both the leader and the team. And so I view that investment as Just time really well spent.

[00:19:17] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: I think that's a perfect way to say it. And I think that people need to be convinced of this point that you'll actually operate more effectively, perform even better by doing things like effective onboarding. So I think that's, that's great. Okay, I'm going to turn it over to Abby on our Let's Talk People team, and she's going to you know, bring in some of the questions that we are hearing, from people managers and leaders out there who are, who are struggling.

[00:19:44] Abigail Charlu: Yeah, thanks, Emily. Thanks, Cameron, for being here today.

[00:19:48] Cameron Kinloch: Thank you.

[00:19:49] Abigail Charlu: Many of the managers we're talking to are just wondering, what's your best practice around onboarding? Again, many feel like they're too busy. They're stretched too thin. They have no time. What are some of those onboarding non negotiables?

[00:20:06] Cameron Kinloch: So there's definitely one non-negotiable, and I certainly put a lot of time into developing a very detailed 30-60-90-day onboarding plan. And for me, that includes a couple of different things. So first, it's sort of the key milestones to accomplish in 90 a 90-day period, and I tie it to the job description.

So the person knows you had some of the key milestones that will set you up for longer term success. The second thing is a list of people that they'll be working with closely in the role so that they can set up those one on ones and can start developing those relationships with their colleagues and their peers in their first 90 days.

And then the third thing is a pretty extensive document actually on how to work with me. So it's a guide to working with Cameron. And that also provides a bunch of detail on my management style, when I'll dive in, when I'll step back, when I'm available. And so that way they can read that before day one, and it gives them a pretty full picture of how I operate as a leader, as well as some of the team norms that they're stepping into when they joined the team, so that for me is nonnegotiable. There is also a funner thing that I do perhaps between the time that a person gets an offer and when they start. I sent over a few quick personality tests. For my new hires that they can fill out before joining the team and it's just, it's not part of the interview process.

It's just more of a quick get to know you before someone joins the team. the three personality tests that are my go tos. They're really quick, but it offers a lot of insight into how we can best work together. The first one is a sleep chronotype test. So what are the person's preferred hours of working and when are they most productive?The second is what kind of learner they are. So is the person visual, auditory or tactical? And so that also helps me figure out how can I help the person best get up to speed as they're learning all of the new things about their role in the company. And then the third is what is their language of appreciation?So is it verbal praise, gifts, acts of service or quality time? So I know how to recognize them when they've done a job. That's, that's fantastic.

[00:22:21] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Just in case I like all of those. Those are all yes. I love this Cameron. And I think it signals to somebody such a level of care, but it's also strategic, right? Like it's so thoughtful that you want to know about them and what's going to allow them to onboard successfully. But you also know it's about increasing their speed to success and productivity.

And so I believe in win wins, right? And so I think that's, that's fantastic. The 90 day plan is so important as well, because how else does somebody know what It's going to take to be successful. And I think that's one of the hardest parts about being news. Yes, the relationships that you need to build and establishing yourself, you know, in some cases all over again.

But if you don't know how you're being evaluated and what success looks like, then you're just kind of showing up each day and trying to figure that out. And that shouldn't be a mystery. I think that's it's incredibly important. The other thing that was coming to me because I love this idea of you sharing about it.

Yourself and how you lead and manage that one of our clients referred to it as like a user manual. I love this concept. I think that the only piece I'd add to it is the relational piece between the manager and their new hire, which is kind of that, like, who are you? How do you like to be managed?

How will I know when you're understaffed? stress, you know, what kind of like what support do you want? Do you like a lot of check ins? You know, just taking kind of what that insight that you gained from those, you know, just kind of assessment pieces beforehand and then almost like connecting the dots between that your preferences as a leader and people manager and, you know, what will set them up to shine.

So I think that kind of triangulation I think is a really interesting conversation to have early on. The other thing that comes to mind for me that I think maybe a little bit of how to scratch the itch that people come up against in terms of their own busyness is the role of colleagues. Like I think sometimes we try to carry the weight of the world as a leader, but you have all of these amazing humans who are, or should be, if we set the right conditions as a leader, as invested in that person's quick success as you are as the leader.

And so who's the person who's going to watch out for them? Who's the person has certain skills? Who's the person who has the network, right? Who's the person who understands the market and the customers, right? How do we kind of create a system of support so that there's parts that you do, but you don't have to do it all yourself.

So that was the other thing that was coming to me when I think about how do you, how do you scale onboarding and make it something that is valued beyond just, you know, beyond just you.

[00:24:52] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the value of actually doing this. Systematically across the team. So to your point that it's not or it shouldn't just be on the leader or the direct manager to be thinking about this. And how do you set up this one new hire for success? It's really a collective language and a collective experience that I now have across my team.

So for example, we had a new hire that really was very auditory in how he learned and came up the curve, and we were finding that long written emails was not actually landing well, and so I had another team member come to me and say, Hey, you know, we actually know that this team member prefers to learn and just ingest data and information better by hearing it and talking through it.

And so. It was a team effort to actually switch some of our modes of communication to help that new team member on board more quickly and ramp up by shifting our mode of communication. So we all think about it collectively on how we can help each other succeed. And so to your point, it's not just on me.

It's now our team is working together to be even more high functioning.

[00:26:04] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: I love that. It's powerful.

[00:26:07] Abigail Charlu: Such good practical advice. And this latter part of the conversation leads us into another question that came up, which was how much does the team need to adapt to the new person versus the new person needing to adapt to the team?

[00:26:22] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah. So I think it's a bit of both. I don't think there's a A black and white answer here, and everyone has to adapt when you're working with other people. It's really on both parties to put in the effort to make the relationship work and to help the team really optimize and work at its best. And that saying of you have to meet someone where they are, I think holds true for any person that's part of a team.

And that's all of us in our day-to-day work life. And so, you know, again, using this example of someone is struggling because they learn in a certain way. And, you know, it's a pretty easy adaptation for me to switch. I'll do that. It's on me as a leader I'm not doing my job as a leader if I don't recognize that and can make a quick and easy shift to help that person come up the curve.

And so these are little modifications that I think we all do day to day. We're not talking about dramatic shifts and now the entire team is shifting to accommodate a single person. I don't think That's reasonable or expected, and so it's just finding that set of norms and practices and how we operate as a team that really works for everyone and then adapting to each person as needed.

[00:27:35] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that is the hardest part of being a people manager is you're always trying to attend to the needs of the individual and the needs of the system, the team, the department, whatever it may be. The only additional thought that was coming to me as I'm thinking about this and as I was listening to you is, if there are established norms, like, you know, you were bringing up this idea of norms, like practices, guidelines, you know, ways we treat each other, I think it's helpful whether they're written.

In some cases, they're unspoken for people to tell the new team member, regardless of their seniority level, that like, hey, this is some of the ways that we operate here. And again, especially the ones that are unwritten, right? It's almost easier to talk about the ones that are on a sheet of paper from, you know, the latest like team retreat, right?

It's the ones that are often not talked about that you end up like, like stepping in it and then trying to recover. So I think that helps. And I don't know if we do that enough systematically. And then also, you have to imagine that part of the value of bringing in somebody new is that they are going to change how the team performs.

So I think it's trying to find that genius and that individual that you want to infuse into the team. Yeah. Be it technically, emotionally, you know creatively, whatever it is that is that essence that they bring. I think to even be able to talk about that is pretty important and progressive to do when you think about onboarding somebody.

[00:28:56] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, absolutely. I think to your point you often go to an offsite and then you walk through all the team norms and we certainly do that as well. And I think it's, Even more important in remote work environment. So my team is fully remote and so actually documenting and agreeing as to what those team norms are.

So what is how does each person prefer escalation of communication? If something is very urgent or what are their off hours? How can you you know, what is our What is the best way to do it? Set of norms around in slack, marking that you're going to be out of the office for an hour on. And so, you know, we, we very consciously talk through all of that and we document it so that new team members have access to what our team norms are.

And then in our next offsite, when we get together as a team, we'll talk through and see if there's any adjustments that we need to make as our team grows. But I do think your point on. You know, what are the norms that aren't explicitly stated are just, if not even more important. And I think team norms get communicated in stories, right?

It's the story of what happens when there was a crisis. How did the leader respond? Or how did we respond as a team? And so being very cognizant of the stories that, you know, People tell about how the team operates and how, what those stories are that get communicated to the new hire really shapes your culture from day one.

And so also discussing what those stories are that you share with each other becomes really important as part of the culture and onboarding.

[00:30:30] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: because that's, that brings it to life and it contextualizes it. I think that's great. Amazing.

[00:30:35] Abigail Charlu: So good. I know team agreements team norms is one of the practices like to share with our clients. So I love this conversation. Is there a difference on how you would on board someone who is senior versus someone who's not as experienced?

[00:30:52] Cameron Kinloch: Really, there isn't, you know, and at the end of the day, we're all human, you know, so we all need the same context when jumping into a new situation, we all need to get clarity on what are the tasks, what are the priorities, who are the people we need to meet and work with, and so the actual onboarding process for my, I don't treat it any differently from a junior employee to a very senior employee, I think the ongoing interactions after a person has started that will change based on level of seniority but the actual onboarding process itself and ensuring that a person has the context of what they need to be successful for me, doesn't change based on level of seniority.

[00:31:35] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: I totally agree. I feel the same way. I can't even come up with a scenario where it wouldn't be that way, except what you were saying, Cameron, like after that initial phase, it's really about how much support they need to be successful. And that's that, that we're always calibrating on. So that's, that's a given.

[00:31:52] Abigail Charlu: Yeah, that's good. I think often there's an assumption that folks that are more senior don't need as much support or handholding or whatever. So that's a good reminder that no matter your level, everybody needs proper onboarding and proper support expectation setting.

[00:32:07] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Yeah, and I also love this idea of like seeing them as a human who's being thrown into a new environment and You only pick up so much from the interview So you have to assume that they really don't know what they're stepping into and how do you? provide like that attention to have it be a really positive experience that accelerates their success.

[00:32:27] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I've heard that from other leaders like, oh, I'm hiring a very senior person. Therefore, I don't need to spend. Anytime onboarding them because they'll just figure it out. And I think, you know, so much of a person success in any job is to understand those norms, like the unspoken written, the unwritten rules of success and how do you operate in this environment and without that very conscious and deliberate way of bringing someone onto the team and into the company, it doesn't matter how senior you are, you'll be set up to fail without that, that onboarding experience.

[00:33:04] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: I, I agree. And in some ways you could even make the case that it's more important because of the amount of people that that leader will impact and how many chances do they have to get that right or to change a perception. So yeah, maybe it's almost the opposite.

[00:33:18] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

[00:33:22] Abigail Charlu: And then our last manager question. Someone is wondering after that 90-day period, how can you maintain the momentum of setting someone up for success going forward?

[00:33:35] Cameron Kinloch: So that's probably an entire other discussion, but what I do to keep that momentum going is I do two things. I set up regular one on ones and so that's, you know, our time each week to align on the priorities for me to share context or updates as I hear about them from the executive team that might shape the way that someone's doing their work.

And I also set aside a standing monthly meeting just to really dive into the person's professional growth, their objectives, how I can better support them as they go through their career journey. And what I learn in those conversations is so enlightening. And it really enables us to build a deeper connection, especially in this remote work environment.

And so setting aside dedicated time. That's not 15 minutes at the end of a one on one when you're going through a list of to do's is really important because it's just a different headspace that you go into when you're talking about, you know, what is it that you want to be in five years? And how can I help you accomplish that?

And so we set aside that time and during those conversations, we also asked for two way feedback. So I asked for feedback on how I can improve as a manager, what I can do to help better enable them in my role and unblock things. And it's just, , really important to set aside that time rather than try to jam it in five minutes at the end of a regular weekly conversation.

[00:35:06] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: I'm really feeling like somebody needs to invent a vitamin that they could take that would have a little bit of camera and people management DNA in it that people could ingest because it sounds like, of course we do this. This is so easy. This is just what we do. And like, you're literally a unicorn like it is so rare that we hear Business leaders speak this way and you know, it's exactly what they do I mean, this is literally what we do in leadership development programs that we run as we try to teach people and convince them of the why behind this and everyone's too busy and it becomes very like tactical and task oriented, but you're absolutely right, Cameron, like this is such formative relationship like there's data that shows that it's important.

Yeah. Your, the way you're treated in your relationship with your boss is more profound in your life than your partner and your therapist, right? we have to know that as truth. So it's very inspiring and sadly not the norm.

[00:36:01] Cameron Kinloch: Well, this didn't happen overnight. So it's just something that, you know, through practice and learning and seeing that this actually is worth the time invested. It just, it builds on itself. And so I've developed this over many years of managing and leading people. And you know, it's led me to really adopt these best practices, because it works. And it's beneficial for both me as a leader and manager, but also for the person and their experience.

[00:36:29] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Yeah, no, I almost wish as a part of the segment, we could be talking and getting some insights from the people who've worked for you because I can only imagine the beautiful things they say. The only other thing I want to just highlight from what you had said, Cameron, I always say, like, I can do the work that I do in the world because I'm more like my clients than I am this person.

It's like, you know, perfect coach over here, you know, who just does everything right. Like I'm like this hard driving, really impatient, like business leader myself, right? So it's like very easy to empathize. But what I like about what you said that I also believe in putting into practice is that there's two different types of connects.

There's a connect that's like the get it done connect. Like we're in it. We got stuff to do. It's Maybe we're being a little bit more directive or, you know, brainstorming and we're kind of in the work with the people on our team. And then there's the ones that feel more deep, reflective, coaching, development oriented, as you described, and it can be hard to shift hats.

And so at times, yeah, maybe you could put some of it into the same meeting. If you just put a very clear boundary of like we are switching gears, you literally say, I'm putting on my other hat or as you have described, I like the idea of having a cadence and again, people can flex on the frequency.

Maybe it's every other month, maybe it's once a quarter, whatever you can handle in terms of how many direct reports you have. But this idea of coming at it from much more of a developmental reflective stance and putting that person in the limelight. I think that's a really important practice for people to get clear on.

[00:37:49] Cameron Kinloch: And it's one of those things where it's very easy to cancel. And so that's also one of the norms that we have on my team is that we don't cancel those meetings, those meetings we prep for, we are very thoughtful around the feedback that we give to each other. And people know that we're going to have these meetings regardless of what's going on in the month or in the quarter.

So it's something that we do hold sacred on our team.

[00:38:15] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: It's important and I really appreciate that's something that the team upholds together. That that's a shared expectation and desire. I think that makes it, makes it stickier that it's going to happen. Okay. We are going to bring it to a wrap with my favorite question.And as you know, Cameron, I believe we're moving into a phase which is about breaking dysfunctional patterns. And there are so many patterns in our own lives that many of us work to break or just live in and suffer from but the same thing happens at work. So in whatever realm, It comes up for you.

What is the pattern you believe you are here to break?

[00:38:58] Cameron Kinloch: Yeah, good question. So I view myself as a professional builder. And for me, I think that's generally viewed in the context of growing a company or a team. But I also view myself as a builder and helping people just grow their careers and grow as humans. I think I'm here to help break the pattern of fear that holds people back from that growth and embracing change. I look back on my career and it's really been an honor to be part of so many people's journeys as a leader and a manager and helping both challenge them, but also support them as they embrace that growth mindset. And for me to watch and observe how they can then go out and accomplish great things that they never even thought possible.

[00:39:43] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: And as I said, I have no doubt that like this has had a profound effect on people's lives and it's so aligns to my belief system that there is excess fear in organizations, which actually interferes in performance. And so I think this is exactly the type of leadership that we need in the world, especially today.

So thank you for being you, Cameron. It's inspiring. It's moving. And it's giving people a real roadmap from what you've shared the how to do it and the why to do it which hopefully will help more people to think about onboarding and these variety of moments in the career journey that really do matter to people, both in terms of their success and emotionally and personally, We appreciate you for who you are as a leader, who you are as a human. And thank you so much for spending the time with us.

[00:40:35] Cameron Kinloch: Absolutely. thank you, Emily. It's been such a pleasure. It's been an honor to come on to this podcast and chat about this.

[00:40:42] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: I feel so inspired by hearing from a leader like Cameron, who's in such a significant leadership role and one that maybe you would not always associate with being the most people management oriented. And think there's some really important takeaways for us as leaders, which is a roadmap. So the person having clarity over what do they need to focus on? What are the expectations and what does success look like in the first 30, 60 and 90 days and how that directly ties to the job description that you share with the new hire. The idea of sharing who you are as a leader and not leaving any guesswork, I think is such a good tip and hack and the idea that you also put some Questions, tools, or practices in place to better understand that individual and what their ways of working are, what their learning style is.

I even love this thought that like, you know, when are they most alert and creative and productive, so that to the best of your ability, you can kind of orient, the schedule to that where possible. , and the idea also that an individual is joining a team, right? There is a whole system that they're stepping into.

How do we make that less guesswork? You know, sharing any team agreements that have already been established, sharing the unwritten rules that nobody's going to tell you about, but you're going to figure out the hard way so that they don't need to go through that like other people have. I think the guilty secret about onboarding is that we benefit from it as much as the person we're onboarding. That's the hack that we know who have been at this game of managing people for a long time and of course had to learn the hard way, which is we don't scale like as a leader.

You cannot scale yourself unless you want to really suffer, which trust me, I have tried that approach, and it didn't go well for me. So I think this idea that. You know, we are looking out for that person by setting that up for success by onboarding them effectively. But it's also about setting ourselves up for success as a leader, because it is about how well your team performs that reflects on your own, , success and performance in terms of results.

And then, you know, this idea that when does onboarding end, right? Like it kind of never ends. It just shifts more into an ongoing way of being with that individual through structured meetings and having a cadence, respecting that cadence and having some be more tactical in nature and being more reflective and developmental in nature.

Those were some of the key takeaways that I took from this. So much richness. For the start of this new year in 2025, we are going to be taking your toughest people management and leadership questions and situations and answering them. So you're going to get free coaching that will help not only you. But your colleagues who also are a part of our let's talk people community.

So send them in. You can either send an email or do an audio memo. You can send it to Abigail on our team at Abigail at a rose group. com. So again, you can send in either a written note, an email, or an audio memo to Abigail at Abigail at arosegroup.com. We will anonymize what you share, so it will remain highly confidential.

And you will also be very, very clear when you listen that we'll be answering your questions and giving you the advice that you desire on your challenges.

Thanks for joining today's episode of Let's Talk People. For more info and insights, visit arosegroup.com and find me, Emily Frieze-Kemeny on LinkedIn and Instagram. If you're enjoying the show, please follow, share on social and leave a rating or review in your podcast app. It helps other listeners to discover us.

Well, that's a wrap friends until next time when we come together to talk people.