Let's Talk, People: Episode 12
[00:00:00] Emily Frieze-Kemeny: Hi, I'm Emily Frieze-Kemeny, host of Let's Talk, People, where leaders come to bridge humanity and profitability. Informed by a couple of decades of work as a head of talent and leadership development, I'm here to amplify leaders so they can exalt everyone and everything they touch. Are you ready? 'Cause it's about to get real.
[00:00:28] Let's Talk, People.
[00:00:33] Today's episode was sparked by some client work we were doing. The question we wanted to explore was: when things aren't going exactly as planned, do we push harder? Do we keep pushing, or do we take a step back and evaluate why things are going the way they are? We talk about how work often feels like a hustle.
[00:01:03] This pushing is something many of us have been trained to do, but we’re not sure it’s the best approach for productivity. We know the consequences from a wellbeing and burnout perspective. So, we intentionally take a pause, open up dialogue, and lead those conversations to even better outcomes—stronger teamwork, healthier environments, and better products for our clients.
[00:01:34] I feel like we’ve grown up in a world of work that values effort: the more time you spend, the more deliverables you produce, the faster you crank out work, the more successful you are. At least, that’s how I’ve grown up in this world of work, and I think I pretty much define that archetype. I’ve been this way for most of my career.
[00:02:00] One of the things I’ve been reflecting on a lot, especially because we do a lot of wellness work at AROSE Group (my company), is whether all these practices—meditation, yoga, eating healthy, being vegetarian—help with my workaholism. Does it actually help prevent burnout? Does it stop us from getting sick? And is that what burnout is really about from a leadership perspective, or is there more to it?
[00:02:45] A recent situation I’ve been helping a client with really made me reflect on the relationship between our wellbeing practices and burnout. When something's not going well at work, we tend to push harder and do more—whether that’s pushing an agenda or a piece of work, or in this case, launching a new product. How are we creating that churn for ourselves and our teams as people managers?
[00:03:07] I want to take you through a scenario. The team was launching a new product to the market, working with their first customers, and they quickly realized their approach wasn’t working as smoothly as anticipated. So, what did they do? They pushed harder. They asked for more from the team, pulled late nights, brought in people from other teams who had other responsibilities, and worked over weekends.
[00:03:47 ]Everybody was all in, which creates camaraderie. You could say it’s great teamwork and collaboration, and yes, that’s true—if it were an isolated incident. But often, it's not. It becomes a way of working, because there’s always the next thing. So my reflection was: why do we keep pushing? What would happen if we took a pause instead? Not a vacation, but a step back to ask, “What’s going on here? Why isn’t it going smoothly? What can we do differently?”
[00:04:46] We’re often pushing through challenges without picking up on the signs that something isn’t working. While performance and productivity are highly valued, that pushing can mean we’re missing a different path—maybe an easier one. So, how do we move away from the hustle culture, which is the root cause of burnout in teams and organizations?
[00:05:33] The step back often brings people together. We need to bring a broader set of people into the conversation who might be able to help. When reflecting on this client situation, it was clear they didn’t pick up on the signals that something wasn’t going well as quickly as they could have. That happens to a lot of us.
[00:06:00] The opportunity was to gather feedback from key people—whether it’s your boss, team members, or others in supporting roles who have a different vantage point. If we’re pushing hard, there’s something wrong. This is a huge unlearning for many of us, but we coach our clients to see it as an opportunity to gather insights and take that step back.
[00:07:09] At AROSE Group, we love good dialogue. One thought we had was: let's assume something is wrong instead of assuming everything is fine. Let’s assume the solution isn’t working, the client doesn’t want what we’re producing, or the performance isn’t optimal. Framing it that way opens the door for people to feel comfortable sharing concerns.
[00:08:06] Sometimes, it helps to role-play. Let’s put on our "negative Nancy" hat or our "cynic" hat and allow people to express their doubts. Framing it as an upbeat exercise, rather than a punitive one, helps open up fresh perspectives. That’s what we did with this team.
[00:08:42] The leader of the product launch had to understand that it’s okay to sit in the discomfort of something being wrong—it’s not personal. No one did anything wrong; it’s just learning. And it’s never too late to redirect, even though it can feel like you have to push through.
[00:09:12] As the leader, your role is to listen, take notes, and show appreciation for insights and tough questions. You need to be present in that moment, and presence is powerful when it comes to improving how you lead.
[00:09:56] When things aren’t going well, there’s often urgency to fix them quickly. But instead of rushing to solve the problem, stay present just a little longer. Sometimes, that extra time gives cautious team members the space to speak up.
[00:10:19] One learning from this work is that we have to make these step-backs a natural part of the process. We call it “the pivot.” A pivot doesn’t have to be big; it could be a small adjustment. It’s about finding a better way forward. The tone of curiosity and appreciation is what really helped this team.
[00:11:47] By asking questions like, “I really appreciate your perspective,” or “I’m curious to learn more,” they created space for more honest dialogue. The quicker you recognize something’s off, the quicker you can pivot and avoid bigger problems down the road.
[00:11:47] By asking questions like, “I really appreciate your perspective,” or “I’m curious to learn more,” they created space for more honest dialogue. The quicker you recognize something’s off, the quicker you can pivot and avoid bigger problems down the road. And when you notice sooner, there's less fear of exposure, stakeholder issues, or risks with leadership.
[00:12:09] The goal is to build this practice into your teams—there should be multiple points in the process where you can catch things early. For example, ask your team to reflect on the customer journey. Go step by step and look at pain points. This is an exercise you can do together to bring in different perspectives.
[00:12:46] When you're thick in the process of whether to pivot, there’s often a decision point. Sometimes, the decision happens in the room with the team. Other times, you need to reflect, gather input from your boss, or speak with leadership. Regardless of where or when the decision is made, it’s crucial to communicate why you made the pivot, what you learned, and what the positive impacts are.
[00:13:27] This communication reinforces the power of the pivot process. It’s the outcome that matters, not how many pivots you made along the way. The learning is what you want to tap into and keep paying attention to. Make sure to close the loop, circle back, and reopen the conversation when necessary.
[00:13:46] Think of this as iterative. Like an agile approach, you're constantly reflecting, pivoting when needed, communicating, ensuring the right supports are in place, and then reflecting again. This process helps you continuously improve, together as a team.
[00:14:07] It's not about pushing to make it work as originally planned—it's about noticing pivots early on in your process and embracing them as a natural part of teamwork and project success.
[00:14:28] As we wrap up today’s episode, let’s remember: success isn’t always about pushing harder. Sometimes, stepping back, challenging assumptions, and encouraging honest dialogue are where we find opportunities for even greater impact and performance. It’s the power of the pivot and finding those pivot moments as early as you can.
[00:15:15] So next time you feel the need to double down, work more hours, and pull in even more team members, take a moment to ask: is there a better way? Is there a more sustainable path for us together?
[00:15:34] Thanks for joining today’s episode of Let’s Talk, People. For more info and insights, visit arosegroup.com and find me, Emily Frieze-Kemeny, on LinkedIn and Instagram. If you’re enjoying the show, please follow, share on social, and leave a rating or review in your podcast app. It helps other listeners discover us.
[00:15:50] Well, that’s a wrap, friends. Until next time, when we come together to talk people.
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